SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
Let's try to understand the consequences of a tumultuous week for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Susan Monarez is out as CDC director. She held the job for less than a month. Several other top officials resigned this week in protest. On Thursday, three were escorted from the agency's headquarters. Dr. Carlos del Rio's a professor of infectious diseases at the Emory University School of Medicine at Atlanta. Dr. del Rio, thanks so much for being with us.
CARLOS DEL RIO: Happy to be with you, Scott.
SIMON: What was your reaction when you heard that Director Monarez had been fired?
DEL RIO: Well, I was very concerned, and very concerned because she is the first CDC director that has undergone Senate confirmation. And I was looking forward to seeing her as CDC director. While she did not have any public health experience, she had a lot of experience in government. She's a good scientist. And she - you know, during her confirmation hearings, she made it very clear that she was going to try to follow the science and be responsive and make public health be science-based. But obviously, when she tried to put science above politics, she hit a wall, and she was dismissed as a result of that.
SIMON: Director Monarez and Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. disagreed over vaccine policy, and two of the departing officials at the CDC cited their own concerns about vaccines. What do you make of this struggle over the question?
DEL RIO: You know, what we're seeing in - the directions we're seeing in the vaccine policies in this country are very concerning. We - you know, first of all, we had the ACIP, the Advisory Committee Immunization Practices, dismissed. That's the committee that makes recommendations on what vaccines should be given and when they should be given. And this is critically important for the health of our children, for the health of adults and to keep people healthy, which is what the mission of the CDC is - to make Americans remain healthy. And now I see people that are long-term public servants and experts in vaccines resign as a result of the pressure they feeling.
So I'm concerned about the future of CDC. I'm concerned about what it means. CDC is a critical agency. CDC is a crown jewel in our country. It's respected globally as the public health agency - you know, probably respected globally as much or more than the World Health Organization. And to see the CDC being dismantled, and brilliant people and good people that work at CDC leave and resign, really concerns me greatly and makes me worry about the future of the agency, but more importantly, the health of Americans.
SIMON: Do you have any concern about the CDC, with all the resignations being prepared, if - well, I shouldn't say if - when there's the next kind of public health crisis?
DEL RIO: Scott, we already have a public health crisis. We have a measles epidemic. We have - every day there's a public health crisis. Many times, you don't hear about them. My mentor, Dr. James Kern, who was at CDC for many, many years, says something that I think is very important - public health at its best is when nothing happens. You don't hear anything. But when you start hearing, you know, there's measles here, and there's avian flu here, and there's this here, and there's diarrhea here, and there's, you know, this outbreak of this other disease here, that's when public health is failing.
So when you see more and more little outbreaks like that and things happening in our country, that's public health not working, not doing what it's supposed to do. You know, every American is touched by public health. You may not know it, but public health directly impacts the lives of literally every American.
SIMON: Dr. del Rio, you sound very concerned.
DEL RIO: I am very concerned, Scott. As you know, I live in Atlanta. CDC is - it's an agency that is based in Atlanta. The people that work there are not only my friends but are people that I've known for a long time, and I know how much passion they have for their job. I know how much commitment they have for what they're doing. They are people that are truly public health servants, who are doing what they do not because of the money, not because of the fame and fortune, but because they want to serve our country. You know, many of them are part of the United States Public Health Service. So in other words, they're part of the military, the armed forces. They're dedicated to our country, just like soldiers and other people are. And they're the soldiers of public health.
I look at CDC as really the place that everybody - all of us look for advice when it relates to public health emergencies, when it relates to public health recommendations. Right now, for example, Scott, we are seeing there's an increase in SARS‑CoV‑2 and COVID virus seen in wastewater in many cities. So what does that mean? What do we do after that? Who do we - how do we prevent an outbreak from happening? Those are the kinds of things that CDC is there to do and to recommend. And if you don't have the technical expertise, if you don't have the brain power behind it, then you're not going to get the right recommendations.
SIMON: Dr. Carlos del Rio of Emory University School of Medicine, thanks so much for being with us.
DEL RIO: A pleasure to be with you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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